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On another forum, Rick Turner stated that he uses thick CA to glue bridges on, right on top of the finish. I'd like to know if there are others doing this and what your experience with it has been. I assume that not many are doing it, and that nobody's been doing it for long enough to draw any conclusions about how the joint holds up over time - but maybe some of you know enough about the chemistry and physics involved to state an informed opinion about whether it should be fine or a cause for concern. I wonder, too, if any of the large manufacturers are, in fact, doing this; I would think the technique would appeal to them (for the same reason it appeals to me - time savings). Maybe some of you with a lot of repair experience have encountered CA glued bridges and have thoughts either for or against them.

I don't know if the type of finish would matter with CA adhesion. Rick generally uses urethane and polyester finishes.

Rick, if you're out there, your further input on this would be much appreciated as well.

Thanks in advance to all who share their expertise and experience.

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

Todd,

I saw that too and I think Rick said that he had learned the technique from Jean Larrive.

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Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010

How does he keep it from getting all over the top? Leakage?

On a side note, I was awakened from bed a week or so ago. It was my son's friend with his broken neck Godin in hand. He had dropped it and it spiral fractured around the neck for about five or six inches.

Once trying to spot on a severed headstock on a cheap acoustic, I thought super glue might just seep into the crevices and hold, it did, and very well.

So, bleary eyed, I rise and head down to the shop. Oh, I forgot the part about his having a bottle of homemade blackberry wine in the other hand. I grab my bottle of thin CA, and return to the bar in the kitchen.

He held the patient firmly over the bar, as I drippled some glue into the joint. This guitar had a nice shiny finish. A quick clamp with a Klemmsia, then wipe excess glue off, then remove clamp, put on some wax paper and replace two Klems in place. We waited ten minutes then removed it all, cleaning up a little surface CA with a pocket knife.

He was smiling from ear to ear as we put on some new strings. It was fixed. And he was happy. The wine went in the fridge and I went back to bed. Okay, I want to see how Rick Turner glues on a bridge with super glue, I really do. Oh, Riiiiiiiick!

I know those folks are doing it, but I wouldn't trust it. No way. Not this guy. No offense to them, but I can't see where it can be a good idea at all.

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

I was under the impression that it's a good idea to have your bridge be removable. Wouldn't using CA prevent this without ripping the sound board to bits?

Larrivee used to, not sure if he still does, use CA to glue the bridge right on top of his one of his previous finishes, Sadolin conversion varnish, made by Chemcraft (I have a pic of a 5 gal pail form around 92 in his last shop on Victoria Diversion, Vancouver). They then would use acetone to clean up the squeeze out because it cleaned up the glue but wouldnt melt the finish - he did this for years as far as I know. There are literally thousands of those gutiars out and are fine so far, and obvisouly easy to reapir as well if need be.

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Tony Karol
www.karol-guitars.com
"let my passion .. fulfill yours"

There are also millions of Asian imports with their bridge CA'd to the finish, also. They've been doing it since at least the 70's, since I repaired plenty of them.

I guess most will stay put, but I will say that when it lets go, it is not pretty. What happens sems to be the finish letting go of the wood, rather than the bridge letting go of the finish. So, what you end up with, quite often, is a large scar across the top.

Perhaps it's our cold climate, and the fact that these cheap guitars are often used as kickabout guitars and dragged in sleighs behind snowmobiles to fishing/hunting camps in sub-arctic temperatures that accounts for the finish seperating, or maybe it's 30 years' of the finish breaking down, or maybe it's the wood drying out, but whatever it is, it enough to steer me away from the technique...Mario38740.495775463

Keep in mind that he's gluing them to catalyzed poly which is much stronger than any "normal" finish. I'd still be a little skepticle of the CA. I've had it fail too many times. But maybe Rick knows more that I do about it. (well, that's a stupid statement, of course he does, but maybe he knows a secret)

My thoughts went along the lines of Mario's comments. It seems to me that you are putting all your faith not so much in your glue, as in your finish--that IT will hold on to the wood with all that provocation to let go.
I've seen my fair share of blistered finishes to know that adhesion isn't necessarily permanent.

SK

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From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com

Yes, Rick's using a polyester finish, but so were all those Asian guitars I've repaired. Now, I'm sure the formulations have changed for the better in the past 30 years, especially the sealer(s). I'm using the same stuff as Rick is(as per his more than generous help!), and it does adhere to the wood very strongly.

I'm just not as brave as they all are. I'm also much younger, and would be repsonsible for the repairs of such for longer <bg>

It is damned tempting, though...

Thanks to everyone for your responses. The point about the finish letting go of the wood, rather than the glue letting go of the finish, seems like an obvious risk now that you point it out, though I hadn't thought of it.

Very tempting, yes, but I think I'll steer clear of the technique, at least for now..   

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

[QUOTE=Mario] What happens sems to be the finish letting go of the wood, rather than the bridge letting go of the finish.[/QUOTE]

Do you think it would help to key up that area of the top under the bridge prior to applying the finish?

Kim

By "key up", what do you mean?

Scuff sand.

How did scuff become key?

The English language, c'est tout fourre....

[quote]How did scuff become key?[/quote]

I think it may have come from when someone uses their keys to scratch up the paint job on your car.

As in "Someone keyed my car"

Man it's me now who's tout fourre up !

SergeSerge Poirier38742.7516087963

[QUOTE=Mario] How did scuff become key?

The English language, c'est tout fourre....[/QUOTE]

To cross hatch or "scuff" the jointing surfaces in order to increase the bonding area thereby LOCKING the glue joint....hence the word key Maybe it's just an Aussie thing.

Cheers Kim

[QUOTE=larkim] [QUOTE=Mario] How did scuff become key?

The English language, c'est tout fourre....[/QUOTE]

To cross hatch or "scuff" the jointing surfaces in order to increase the bonding area thereby LOCKING the glue joint....hence the word key Maybe it's just an Aussie thing.

Cheers Kim [/QUOTE]

"increase the bonding area"?
We better not go there.
Nelson